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 Christianity...WTF!?!

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PostSubject: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:05 am

This is going to sound a bit confusing as I'm going to be quoting posts from a debate I was having with a Christian on another forum.

These 'sacred' individuals believe their god to be all loving, understanding, and forgiving yet have absolutely no space for any life other than humans in their heaven or God's master-plan. they believe that God created animals for us, and us alone. they also believe that women were made from men, for men. I had asked why god couldn't be a she, after all it's a woman who gives birth after all (idea taken from Witch)

Quote :
He is not a she because He is Jesus's Father (not Mother). In the Bible, women were created from men (even though women give birth), it is woman who was created in man's image, so your last comment holds no water.

I also asked how do you class the treatment of animals? Christians own slaughterhouses..

Quote :
God put animals on the Earth for Adam, none of them were good enough so God created Eve, Adam named the animals and they are here for US.. (in the Bible)

It was then I realised that Christianity was slightly sexist. Also it just furthered my belief that Christians are following a faith massively influenced by medieval times.

What he said not only contradicts itself clearly but is a jab at women not being equal to men.

And I believe the entire concept of Christianity is born from a time when men and women weren't considered equal, and life - although taught thou shall not kill - meant very little to anyone.

He then tried arguing that all religions could be deemed sexist and Christianity not, though when I asked what religions stating to not post anything he'd seen on the news, he didn't reply.

Quote :
that is not sexist, I was explaining why God is assumed to be a man.. the Bible goes on about women's importance, but that was not part of the debate, the debate was simply, "why is God seen as a male?" Christianity is not sexist and that is not at all what I meant. I did not mean to put down women in any way, I was simply responding as to why God is portrayed in a male form. If you would like to restart a debate about sexist religions, I am sure the ones you listed in the other debate thread would win out by far, because some of them are very sexist. And if you would like proof of Christianity not being sexist, I will be happy to oblidge.

he never got around to telling me which of the religions I had posted (I posted a list of religions that I believed to make more sense than Christianity) were sexist. I did get this though:

Quote :
Women are looked at like that now. Not by me, but by some (Christians and non-Christians). I wasn't being sexist. Saying God is looked at as a male is not sexist and if you say it is, you are stretching to win this argument. And when I said God made woman from man, that is because that is what the Bible tells us. She was made from the rib (side) of the man, meaning they walk side by side, as equals. She wasn't made from a bone of Adam's foot, telling us that men can walk all over women.

Right, so women couldn't possibly have been equal to man without that all important rib bone...

Obviously I know that this wasn't the way it really happened when humans began their reign on earth, but this is what the bible tells people. I think it's kind of backwards and simply highlights the era of when it was written. then I got:

Quote :
In the beginning, God made the woman from the man. Going forward, the woman gives birth to the man. In the Bible, men were alive first, but they do not "come first" in "life." God created them to be partners.

Also, what does being perfect have to do with the men that wrote the Bible. It is known, and admitted by those themselves, that they were sinners. It doesn't mean they can't write history.

It gets better:

Quote :
I just included it with the real reason, which is humans have souls, animals do not. Souls are saved. And I am sorry if you feel that there is a "doggy heaven" but despite what cartoon movies say, all dogs do not go to heaven. To say animal are equal to humans is ridiculous. I love animals. But to be truly equal you have to look at it like this: If you had to, which would you rather kill, a person or a bug?-- the answer better be the bug or you are one crazy person. So where animals may be mistreated sometimes (which, by the way, I do agree with, they are mistreated), they are in no way equal to human beings. The end.

WTF have these people got against animals? I asked if any other religions shared these views towards animals:

Quote :
this is a Christianity debate, so I am bringing up what Christians believe.

It goes on and on and on....

I consider myself to respect other peoples' beliefs but Christianity to me is a joke, they swear blindly by the book, state clearly its inaccurate and those who wrote it were sinners, yet believe humans to be the only life on the planet that should be considered sacred.

I'm sorry if you're a Christian and your views are different, but whilst the bible undoubtedly did its job during the era it was produced I think it could use a rewrite to take into account changes in fundamental principles of equality and life as we see it today...

If anybody actually sat and read this, what do you think?

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:07 am

I was in this debate also, and it seems, that the main debate we had about anything, was about animals.
I can't understand how they can put so much so called 'respect and love' into the world, apparently. Yet can be so insulting towards animals and their rights. All living things come under one umbrella as such, in my opinion anyway, you should treat every living thing with the same respect you would wish upon yourself.
Since when was it okay for us to class ourselves higher? If I remember rightly, animals and nature came before humans, so if anything should have 'right of way' should it be them?
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:24 am

Just yesterday I actually joined a Catholic forum for a poke around and have been met with much the same old arguments.
I keep replying in a thread a Catholic member had made about the Qur'an. Myself and other Muslim members keep replying, and this was the most recent reply we've been met with:
Quote :
God the Father in Heaven, i will praise you forever! Father help us to evangelize the world especially those who are in the darkness. Please, give them the wisdom and sufficient knowledge to your Words. please open their Hearts to embrace your Truthfullness, please Help our Moslem Brothers to see your Light, guide them so that they will become your Children, especially those who are in terrorist Groups, that they dont know what they're doing. God Help them to see the Peace, the True Peace came from you. I am praying Father to all who are in evil, to who love evil works, to all have evil mind, Help them O' Father so that they will see You! Give them signs and miracles because its only the way for them to believe you. I will pray also to Please Help the kidnap victims of Abu sayyaf, the ICRC members and the Rest. Father, Please we need your Help, help them even the Abu sayyaf so that they will live according to your Will. Give them chances to repent, to see the Light of Peace and Goodness. Please Father, Guard Us against evil. we Ask these through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for prayer, in fact I pray very regularly. But can we please discuss on the internet rather than avoid the topic at hand and ignore what's being posted?

I also feel like he threw the "Abu Sayyaf" bit in as a slur against Muslims. Maybe I'm being paranoid.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:19 pm

Its obvious they have only ever researched one religion...

So maybe we should pray that the veil of Christianity and its lies should be lifted from them...

lol

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:34 pm

No offense to any christians on this forum, but christians like that, I would LOVE to get in a room, beat the living shit out of them with their bible while constantly screaming; 'where is your god now'
Sometimes violence is the way forward.....
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:09 pm

Girl_Anachronism wrote:
No offense to any christians on this forum, but christians like that, I would LOVE to get in a room, beat the living shit out of them with their bible while constantly screaming; 'where is your god now'
Sometimes violence is the way forward.....

I fear you...

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:20 pm

As you should, as you should -nods-
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:13 pm

[quote="Nuthouse Orderly"]This is going to sound a bit confusing as I'm going to be quoting posts from a debate I was having with a Christian on another forum.

These 'sacred' individuals believe their god to be all loving, understanding, and forgiving yet have absolutely no space for any life other than humans in their heaven or God's master-plan. they believe that God created animals for us, and us alone. they also believe that women were made from men, for men. I had asked why god couldn't be a she, after all it's a woman who gives birth after all (idea taken from Witch)





is this freak for real????this goes back to my comment to you earlier about religion being brain wash.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:14 pm

He was like 17, I got classed a devil worshiper after ONE POST, it was all very lolzy. Started being sarcy to me about; "do you think there is a doggy heaven, well there isn't" patronizing twats.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:21 pm

id be ashamed if that was my kid Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:21 pm

i cant believe i missed it all Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:23 pm

It was lolzy, they are incredibly easy to wind up happy nod
Swear a couple times and it drives them mad! Oh and I also quoted a Hitler quote about religion - just to wind them up, sadly the post was so busy by that point it got lost in them all, i was hoping for a big dramatic YOU'RE GOING TO HELL shit. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:27 pm

where was this happening at? just so i know when i feel in the mood to pick on someone Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:45 pm

Have to get dan for the link, I couldn't be bothered to save, alhough now i've realized, abshing teenage extremist christians, rather good way to relieve stress.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:49 pm

they sound like they come from that crazy family that were on the jerry springer show. ill see if i can find a link
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:50 pm

DAN LINK PLZKTHXBAI
^_^
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:36 am

I see a lot of posts here about religion, but not a lot of good 'information' about this topic.

I am Christian. So, the only belief that I can support is my own. I can't argue in favor of Mulsims, Jews, or other religions, as I have not practiced those religions. I'm sure, just in studying about them, I would have as many misconceptions about those religions as some would have about Christianity.

If you take into account the time period when the Bible was written, you have to understand that it was written before--a century or more--before Ancient Greece. So, yeah--it's going to sound weird to us, because it was written for the mentality of the time. Take the whole clean/unclean meat thing from the Old Testament. Not being a Jew, I can't really say what the symbolic reasons or the religious significance behind the fact that Jews don't eat pork. But I do know about trichinosis. Maybe telling the Jews that pork (among other things) is unclean and don't eat it sounds just as normal to them as telling them that there are little things in the meat that you can't see that could make you very sick unless the meat is prepared properly. I don't think the Bible needs to be re-written, but I do think that people need to understand the WHY behind it.

IF you believe that there is a God that is Sovereign over all creation, then we can debate the Bible, and it's concepts. If not--it becomes a bit more difficult.

A lot of Christians, and non-Christians, try to pin God down as a particular being or having a particular personality trait. That's just as difficult as looking at someone you know and pinning them down to one personality trait.

My father was very loving--but that doesn't mean he didn't hold us responsible when we broke the rules. We were punished--but that doesn't mean he was only judgmental. He was a lot of fun--but that doesn't mean he was never sad. I saw him cry--but that doesn't mean he was never in a good mood.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:13 am

How can a book have been written before an entire country?

one example of how the bible would've came after:

Before the bible, Lucifer was the name of Venus (the morning star, Phosphoros) - given that by the Greeks, he was also a very nasty Babylonian king, which the founders of the bible mistook for Satan after reading texts referring to him, and thus changed the Morning Star into a keeper of hell.

There has been many versions of the bible, and apparently, the earliest versions mentioned nothing of Jesus being the son of God.

There were countless Gods and Goddesses before Christians taught monotheism, spread across all the different countries and cultures. Christianity has dulled that considerably by trying to imprint in peoples minds that there be only one that can be valid.

I'm sorry if this seems believable to you, but I think its silly. Countries and cultures found their own gods inspired by the natural magic and power of nature, and the world. Christians have sucked that power out of the world by saying the divine is up in a place called heaven and not down here as a manifestation in every piece of nature that is.

I do agree however, that when writing this thread it was more of a rant, and not really respecting others beliefs. And I do apologise for that.

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:55 am

[quote="Princess"]I see a lot of posts here about religion, but not a lot of good 'information' about this topic.

I am Christian. So, the only belief that I can support is my own. I can't argue in favor of Mulsims, Jews, or other religions, as I have not practiced those religions. I'm sure, just in studying about them, I would have as many misconceptions about those religions as some would have about Christianity.

If you take into account the time period when the Bible was written, you have to understand that it was written before--a century or more--before Ancient Greece. So, yeah--it's going to sound weird to us, because it was written for the mentality of the time. Take the whole clean/unclean meat thing from the Old Testament. Not being a Jew, I can't really say what the symbolic reasons or the religious significance behind the fact that Jews don't eat pork. But I do know about trichinosis. Maybe telling the Jews that pork (among other things) is unclean and don't eat it sounds just as normal to them as telling them that there are little things in the meat that you can't see that could make you very sick unless the meat is prepared properly. I don't think the Bible needs to be re-written, but I do think that people need to understand the WHY behind it.




why dont you explain it all to us?
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:02 pm

Nuthouse Orderly wrote:
How can a book have been written before an entire country?

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. But the things written about in the Bible are very ancient. These writings were probably oral 'stories' generations before they were actually written down. The Jewish Torah--which in Christianity are the first 5 books of the Bible are attributed to Moses, who didn't live at the beginning of the world.
The events in these writings pre-date the building of the pyramids.
queen of hearts wrote:
why dont you explain it all to us?
Well, I can't explain everything, because I simply don't know everything. The Old Testament was written as a history of the Jewish people and prophesy of the coming Messiah.
As far as the 'why' behind some of it--if you read a lot of Exodus, especially, you'll see that there are a lot of rules and regulations about cleanliness and law.
Given that this was written about the same time as the building as some of the pyramids (given not just Bible history, but Ptolomy, Pliney, and Josephesus as well) This was an ancient, ancient time. Just one step (in my opinion) from cave men. Most of these laws were to keep the people 'safe' and healthy. There were things written about sexual relations, diseases, and diet. Like I mentioned with the pork. There are probably other laws that if we look, we could see scientific reasons behind some of them.
As far as the legal aspects were involved--there are lots of laws about living with other people in a community. And the Mosiac Law was taken as a root for British Common Law--which evolved into the laws that we enjoy in America today.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:20 pm

Princess wrote:
Nuthouse Orderly wrote:
How can a book have been written before an entire country?

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. But the things written about in the Bible are very ancient. These writings were probably oral 'stories' generations before they were actually written down. The Jewish Torah--which in Christianity are the first 5 books of the Bible are attributed to Moses, who didn't live at the beginning of the world.
The events in these writings pre-date the building of the pyramids.

You said they were written before ancient Greece, which was very confusing, as I think Greeks were writing stuff down before the rest of the world, though that part I'm not sure of.

yeah I can imagine they were written of events that pre-dated written word, but that still doesn't make them anything other than folk-lore, especially as I highlighted about the myth of Lucifer being that it was one basic concept of hell and a devil that seems to have been very misinterpreted by Christians.

And, if you think about it, any cultures original gods would have pre-dated any monuments built to worship them.

I appreciate your insight though, it could give us a less biased look at Christianity, I hope you stay!

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:53 pm

This thread has been moved here for the simple fact it weren't a discussion or a debate I wanted, it was a rant so it's now in its appropriate place!

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:09 pm

what i ment was, why dont you explain christianity to us.the beliefs etc
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:04 pm

Have I missed something?!
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity...WTF!?!   Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:14 pm

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